How can we best design bike facilities for the initial Frome St / Pulteney St areas? (Project 1)

by Engage, over 3 years ago


  • Lamby over 7 years ago
    As a person who commutes into the city - riding past the zoo and up frome street every day, I think this is a fantastic plan.Particularly, the section of Frome Rd between North Terrace and Rundle Street (riding past the car rentals) is an absolute death trap in morning peak hour traffic. I'm surprised more riders aren't injured there - anyone who stops and watches morning traffic through there for 10 minutes or more is bound to see a near miss.Also, I think having safer access through to the city from glen osmond is a huge boost for people who would like to ride in, but are put off by the traffic in the city.
  • iordeb over 7 years ago
    As a commuter cyclists who uses Pultney St daily this a welcome development and another great step by ACC towards true integration of cyclists in the city.The most important parts of the new development will be the North Tce to Pirrie St sections of both Pultney St and Frome St.Both of those sections have a large amount of car traffic and bus routes, with very little space. What's needed is permanent, uninterrupted (especially at intersections) bike lanes. The bus/coach parking (not just stopping for a bus-stop) on Pultney St./Hindmarsh Sq means that cyclists have to change lanes towards the traffic regularly. This is probably the most dangerous part of my commute and it has to go.Good luck with finding the space on the east side of Frome St between North Tce and Rundle St, the foodpath is already small and there isn't even parking to get rid of.The Frome St-Glen Olsmond Rd link is good but probably won't get much use due to the narrow, high traffic nature of Glen Osmond Rd further down.
  • aarondavis1986 over 7 years ago
    I usually commute to the city either via Goodwood Road / West Terrace, or Unley Road / Pultney Street and have equally near misses along both routes. I'm very pleased to see that Frome Road is being proposed rather than Pultney Street because it will be nice to have an alternative to bus dodging on Pultney Street.Given that the council is at the initial design stage, I would like to see them working towards a completely separated bike way with decent width lanes and work to discourage through vehicular traffic as much as possible. I would have a preference for two bikeways - one in each direction, rather than a single bi-directional path as seen on west terrace. To use the west terrace example further, I also find it far too narrow to safely pass other cyclists and /or pedestrians. Although this would obviously take up a lot more room, our streets are incredibly wide and there are plenty of other routes through the city for cars, it would in some ways be nice if Frome Road got a reputation for being a horribly slow road to drive down.Whilst grade separation from the road would be nice, I would caution against it as this can become very uncomfortable at intersections, bumping up and down every time you cross "car territory" - see example of the westside bikeway where most cyclists prefer to ride along the road, so, I would prefer to see either a solid concrete barrier between cars and bikes - even if said barrier is only 10cm high such as along the upper sections of the freeway bikeway (above devils elbow), or even better, a nature strip planted with shrubs / grasses that greened the street as well as providing protection for cyclists.The "water bottle fountain" that the ACC has installed on the North Terrace, Pultney Street corner is fantastic, and I would love to see these all oner the city, but particularly along the councils dedicated cycling routes. It can be surprisingly difficult to fill a water bottle anywhere other than on north terrace or along the Torrens, and if surrounded by other infrastructure (a couple of nice benches, perhaps a bolted down high pressure tyre pump or two, even a spot to post a notice of a bike for sale), these could serve as a catalyst for a community hub promoting cycling as a culture rather than just a mode of transport.My final suggestion would be to try and synchronise the traffic lights to the average speed of a cyclist (c.10 - 20km/h) rather than to the speed of cars. I find myself having to work very hard when riding along Pultney Street in peak hour to get through more than 2 or 3 sets of lights without stopping, whilst cars seem to be able to go straight through at 50km/h.
  • pippa over 7 years ago
    I cycle in to the city daily, down the tram line and then down Frome Street to North Terrace. I rarely go more than a few days without some sort of near-miss with a sudden hazard. Currently, the most common are posed by parked cars (pulling out, people standing in the bike lane waiting to get in, or opening doors) motorists turning left at traffic lights and busses pulling in and out - or having to overtake parked busses. We really need bike lanes which are for bikes only, not just for bikes when motorists and busses don't need them!Ideally, I would like to see a vast reduction in the number of cars in the city through better public transport and cycle paths - as well as an increase of "park and ride" facilities at the edge of the city. This would make the city a more welcoming place for everyone.
  • pauligee over 7 years ago
    As do most of the respondents thus far, i also ride to the city daily, in the morning approaching from Unley Road straight up Pulteney, right at North Tce and Left down the hill at Frome Rd. In the afternoon, I travel up Frome on the bike path, all the way along Frome and Regent St Nth, right at Carrington, left on Pulteney. I am very happy to see Adelaide City Council attempting to engage the community regarding planning improvements for a more sustainable city, kudos to you. I have some suggestions:1) please ensure that any bike lane designated as 24 hr is marked as such with signage and road marking, to remove ambiguity from the minds of motorists. for example, the western side of Frome road down the hill past the universities: the number of people who stop their cars here to drop someone off, forcing a cyclist to brake hard on the downhill, or if they dont give you the warning of an indicator, having to swerve into traffic to avoid them; another example is on Pulteney through Hurtle Square in the East side of the square there is a bus lane which is not 24 hr, and a bike lane that (from my understanding of the markings) is 24 hr, yet obstuctions in the form of witch's hats and stationary cars (usually trying to change lanes to turn left) in the bike lane are suprisingly frequent.2) Where there is cause for a 24 hr bike lane (and cyclists traditionally don't vaporise outside of the hours of 7am-9am and 4pm-6pm), I would like to see it marked with green paint (to highlight to motorists) and grit (to avoid bike tyre slippage due to paint in wet weather), as has been done on the North West corner of Frome Rd./Nth Tce intersection.3) One of the key dimensions of sustainability is the social dimension, and the city is where many workers have adopted a more sustainable approach to their working life by adopting flexitime - this will usually see them travelling in the city outside of normal peak hours, and it would be a good message to send to the general public that the ACC is underlining it's sustainability credentials by supporting these choices and making all bike lanes in the city 24 hr - or at least extending the times that they are bike lanes by a couple of hours each way: instead of 7am-9am, 5am-11am; instead of 4pm-6pm, 2pm-8pm.Will there be an uproar? Undoubtedly! Will it encourage more cycling and sustainable travel in the city? Most definately! Who knows how many people might choose to leave their cars at home and ride their bikes instead?4) In order to support such behaviour changes, you may also need to consider increased free bike parking and cyclist showering facilities, but this is probably jumping the gun a little - lets see how we go with the lane change improvements first ;-)
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    • R23 over 7 years ago
      On the fourth note may I just ask what was with the bike park in Hindmarsh Square? I thought it was good how it blocked off traffic but personally I didn't find it useful other than that and the times I went through there it did not seem to be highly utilised. I'm all for trying different things but "this is probably jumping the gun a little" - we don't need showers and a forced street culture, we already use the roads. It just seems that before you put any money into these luxury events, the various safety issues around the city could be solved first.
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      • pauligee over 7 years ago
        R23,I'm not suggesting forcing a street culture, but certainly hightened awareness: a step change in peoples awareness and thinking is what is needed to answer alot of the questions regarding sustainability, of which personal transport is just one. The reason I am recommending showering facilities is to make them available to potential cyclists who would ride their bike if they had them available: if it wasn't for the fact that I had showering facilities available at my place of work, there is no way I would be able to consider riding daily, as it is over a 15 km journey and I end up bathed in sweat upon entering the city square mile - and I dont want to impose that stench on anyone! I am aware that I am lucky to have that facility available, and am sure that if more people also had it available, they would consider riding -at least if not daily- maybe once a week, thereby decreasing their work-related transport carbon footprint by up to 20%!I travel from beyond Belair to the city and back every day; the bike ride to town is quicker than all forms of public transport available: the bus is slowest, the train quickest, the train is usually quicker than the car: on the bike I am quicker than the car by at least 10 minutes, more in heavy peak hour traffic. I then have the added benefit of having exercised, well and truly got my mind ready for a days work, and I dont need to worry about a gym membership: I'm keeping fit and healthy while travelling to and from work.My point is, without the support mechanisms available, how can we expect the kind of change we'd like to see?
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        • R23 over 7 years ago
          I agree, showering and basic facilities are important and neccessary (I've commuted from Up Sturt and Flagstaff Hill before - the former in particular is not a place for buses or dry skin). However, showers already exist in many facilities across the city and these should be made available for cyclists if they so need. My main point was that the bike park itself, with it's anti-atmosphere, few people and little to offer as a venue was a waste of money. It was only successful in created another unenlivening part of the city of which the showers and the road closure were probably the most useful. So please understand I am not against the showers - I am against frivolity over real change. Maybe the money that went into having this park for one month could have gone towards a program of permanent showers? Also, as I have done cycling from around your 'hood to town before I appreciate the many hurdles that would stop many people riding in and commend you for doing it! At this point of time though, cyclists that are doing a 15 km + commute are exceptions to the bulk of numbers. Whilst every possible effort should be put into making your ride more friendly and in turn encourage people in general to ride more, as far as the ACC goes I feel that the priority should be on fixing known problems first. We need basic infrastructure (lanes that don't end/work, elimination of blind spots, renewal of all paths through the parklands, bike parking areas and things like showers, bike pumps and all that jazz) but we don't need to close a part of one road for a small period of time. The Hindmarsh Square park was only a mirage and now that it is gone we have gained nothing permanent. I hope that clarifies my point : )
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          • pauligee over 7 years ago
            Hear hear, well said.I believe that particular event was a somewhat tokenistic attempt at placation of the cycling community; as you say it achieved little, especially in long term gains.I would prefer that the protaganists involved in such a venture engaged the wider cycling community and put funding towards finding out what might really instigate long term change for the better - The ACC talks up its intentions of decreasing traffic congestion and making Adelaide more Cycle friendly - time to back it up!
    • steve over 7 years ago
      I support this request for 24 hour bike lanes on the following basis.Mandatory Bike Helmet laws have greatly reduced the number of bike users but that is no excuse to avoid spending money on infrastructure like 24 hour bike lanes it is entirely the governments poor choice that there are so few bike riders when they get treated so poorly they should not also be denied bike lanes,The councils and government trying to claim the lack of demand as an excuse to deny such infrastructure is joke when their own policy mandatory bike helmet laws was and still is directly responsible for the lack of demand in the first place. I have seen the adelaide bicycle police booking students riding along linear park for not wearing helmets and they wonder why we have so few people riding after treating them like that !.The Laws also read "you may only ride your bicycle on a footpath if: you are under the age of 12 or you are carrying and complying with a certificate issued by your doctor."What is with the under 12yo age limit do they expect a 14year old to know how to ride on the road safely and be strong enough and visible enough to be able to safely interact with motor traffic, even many adults can't do that especially the elderly.Adults use of the footpaths seems quite reasonable since plenty of car drivers use the bicycle lanes for car parking spaces as the OP points out..Bike helmets in spite of what many are mislead to believe do not provide sufficient protection from motor vehicles collision or even falling at speed so for many less confident riders or even just one who is very tired using a footpath at low speeds provides them with an alternative option till they gain confidence.
  • Dario over 7 years ago
    Above all, don't mix cyclists and pedestrians like on Frome Rd. Students wandering vaguely around with their mobiles are a disaster waiting to happen. On normal streets it's best to widen the parking lane so the cyclists can stay within that lane while being able to keep clear of opened car doors.
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    • andrewc over 7 years ago
      This is a very good point. I have riden this bike lane many times and encounter pedestrians "wandering" into the bike lane at least half the time. I don't blame the pedestrians, but I do blame the people who implemented this system........it's not intelligent design. People are only as good as the systems they operate in.
  • R23 over 7 years ago
    Likes others, I also commute to town most days. In my case, I venture up through the southern parklands, around Hutt St and snake onto Frome at whichever point I feel like on the day (sometimes Rundle, sometimes North Tce, sometimes....you get the point). I avoid as much as possible Frome Rd due to its lake of bike lane, and along with the serious flaws on several parts, I'd like to bring to attention where Regent St comes to a dead-end (just before the box factory) No bike lane and if you want to go straight you're left with a couple of dodgy options to get onto the shared walk/bike path - a give way sign, busy traffic and poor vision makes for dangerous and not so fun times. Frome road is a problem as there is no north-bound bike lane and the south-bound is on a footpath that is too busy. Pedestrians can't help but get in the way there, there is no space! It is otherwise a nice path but it needs to be widened - maybe run the bike lane outside the line of trees? That would also make cyclists more visible to cars.The footpath should be widened on the eastern side of Frome (between Rundle and North Tce) to allow cars pulling out more space and better vision and thus providing more safety for all forms of traffic. The lane on this stretch should be coupled with the elimination of on-street parking on the western side. As far as traffic goes, in the peak times Frome backs up so heavily that driving is only an issue because there is currently no space. Changes need doing and what a convenient (for me at least) place to start!
  • bilby over 7 years ago
    I agree that bike lanes are necessary in any city. Placing them in quiet, narrow residential streets, however, is a poor idea. I live on one of the streets that will be affected by this plan - a very narrow one-way street which cyclists can already safely use (as there is minimal car traffic). I can't see how two-way bike lanes could be implemented without removing all on-street parking on this street, which disadvantages residents that rely on permit parking. We are a one-car household and as we live in a small cottage without a carport we can only park on the street - devoting our street to bike lanes would mean we would have to park well away from our house, which brings safety and security issues. There are plenty of two-way streets in the area that could accommodate such bike lanes without removing necessary permit parking spaces. I think the Council needs to rethink the route through the southern portion of the city, because the proposed plan will disadvantage people that are already living sustainably in the way that the Council promotes (in medium/high density residences, and who walk or cycle to work and Uni and participate in city life). I think the bike lane should go up Hutt Street, left on Halifax, then up Regent / Frome - this way it will remain as much as possible on streets wide enough to handle high volumes of bike traffic.
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    • pauligee over 7 years ago
      I agree with what Bilby says here. All valid points. There is no harn in dedicating bike lanes in high-volume traffic roads in the CBD when the council has indicated it wants to reduce the volume of car traffic in the city. Put the squeeze on, convert some of the single passenger drivers from inner suburbia to cycling. Their health and hip pockets will both improve, freeing up some more hard-earned to spend in the city!The only way to decrease congestion is to steadfastly change access: improvements to public transport and bicycle traffic access while decreasing access to motoring drives the city in a sustainable direction. We don't need thinkers in residence to tell us the same thing again, do we?
  • saf over 7 years ago
    I agree that major roads through the city may require bike lanes (Frome and Pultney).However, I think some consideration needs to be given to residents who live in the one way streets affected by the proposed plan (Castle and Charlotte St). These are both very narrow one way streets, one side of which is dedicated to permit parking for the residents who live on these streets. The majority of houses on these streets are tiny old cottages where no offstreet parking is available. If bike lanes are created along these streets, it would be a huge inconvenience to all these residents, who include the elderly, as well as people with small children. Walking through the city late at night also raises additional security and safety issues, as noted above. Offstreet parking is limited enough as it is, removing the additional parking available for residents does not seem to be fair or well though out. Would suggest considering alternate routes to link Glen Osmond Rd to Frome St.
  • asteele over 7 years ago
    I used to commute to both Pirie street and Grenfell street from the north-east and found the Frome road lanes somewhat strange. Coming into the city, the shared path works OK until you need to cross North Tce, where you hit a lot of parked cars and little space. After several attempts at using this road I gave up altogether and came into the city via a less direct route.Going out of the city, the existing Frome road path is tiny, with the usual cars illegally waiting for pickups, forcing you into the traffic anyway. I hope the review of the bike lanes to Frome road will include better policing of the tiny lane.The proposed extension of the bike lane from Frome through the city is a fantastic plan and hopefully it cleans up the parked cars during peak times. A 24hr lane would be even better - there are plenty of paid car parking spaces if you choose to have a car in the city.
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    • pauligee over 7 years ago
      The only way I can see changing motorist's behaviour re pickups is not through policing: it would require policing 24/7 to be effective, along the entire stretch, and I can not see that happening anytime soon. I think a good idea for this portion of Frome road (I assume you're talking about the Western side down past the university campus?) would be to erect some sort of fencing so that drop-offs in this lane are no longer possible. Having said that, raising the bike lane so that motorists do not squeeze into it would also be of benefit, unless some of the footpath could be given up on this side of the road to make way for a cycling lane, with aforementioned fence keeping pedestrians out of the bike lane. This would also hopefully reduce the number of cyclists who use the cycling path on the eastern side of the road to head north (downhill), against the prescribed flow. Otherwise, I completely agree with your sentiment.
  • kingsnew over 7 years ago
    I think the proposal to be extreemly short sightedWhy plan a bike path which ends at Glen Osmond Road, when by extending it across to Porter Street, Parkside , Adelaide would have a bike pathway that extends from the northern suburbs right through to Cross Roads and beyond?You are missing out on a golden oportunity to devert much of the southern suburbs bike traffic into a much more user friendly environment.The established paths leading into the city from Porter Street in the southern parklands currently channel bikes onto busy Pultney Street. The "more hardy bike riders" have carved their own paths by taking the most direct route, through the grass, to access Charlott Street. It is hard going but well used as you will see by examining the ruts.( incidently, they have been used to my direct knowledge for over 60 years, so this is nothing new)The journey into/out of the city escapes the mad rush of Pultney Street motorised traffic, making the short rough ride worth the effort.While you are at it, consider closing the mouth of Charlott Street at South Terrace.Rush hour traffic speeds along Charlott Street to make short cuts and avoid traffic Lights.Many cyclist travel in both directions along Charlott Street at present and have done so for the 25 years I have been living here.Many have to spear off to avoid hitting cars traveling at too fast a speed in such a narrow lane.This could be very simply overcome by following Unley Council's lead in the Porter Street example, by closing the mouth of Charlott Street at South Terrace and in effect ,restricting the flow of motor vehicles in that street, to local traffc only.I have worked most of my life in handling traffic problems and would welcome the oportunity to consult with whoever it is in the ACC who is driving this plan
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    • Engage over 7 years ago
      Hi and thank you for your response!We value your comments and ideas in the development of this project. If you would like to be involved further in the Bike Lane consultation, you can either organise to meet the project owners at the new planning lab (Adelaide City Council, 25 Pirie St) or email the project team - Nick Nash on n.nash@adelaidecitycouncil.com. We would love to hear more about your ideas.
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      • kingsnew over 7 years ago
        Removed by moderator.
  • SkateSA over 7 years ago
    As Rollerskating in any shape or form is illegal on the roads in Australia, we skaters would like some joint thought into bike lanes. Our main issue is that they need to be initially laid flat not sloped & in nice smooth bitumin (not gravel) & that they are constantly maintained.Rollerskating is illegal on the roads, not safe on footpaths & not wanted on the bike paths - how do those of us who wish to skate to work & events in the city manage to continue our healthy lifestyle?
  • IanBuckland over 7 years ago
    How about raised dots on the road, to alert drivers, with vibration and sound, when they stray into the area which is a bike lane ?Like they have on highways.
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    • pauligee over 7 years ago
      Definitely agree with this, all bike lanes should be marked with Vibraline to remind motorists when they stray into bike lanes. I had a motorist tell me that "cyclists all think they own the bloody road" in response to asking him "do you hate all cyclists, or just try to run down anyone regardless of them riding in the bike lane?" after he had nearly knocked me off my bike while reversing out of a car park, then nearly bowling me over as he took off driving through the bike lane as he went.I think the irony of his answer was lost on him. While I know that not all motorists are this pre-historic, there's no telling which ones are. I hope they are in the minority, and that this idea will be a useful reminder to those who do intend to share the road.
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      • IanBuckland over 7 years ago
        There definitely needs to be a media campaign to educate drivers and keep it in front of them for a prolonged period - at least 12 months - it just takes councils & state government to properly fund it. And cycle consciousness should be in the questions and tests drivers have to pass to get their licence. It's a cultural shift that has to take place - trying to make drivers realise that they have to SHARE the road and what a lethal weapon they're in charge of.Of course, cyclists need to be nice and visible (flashing lights on even in the daytime, I reckon) and use the bell all the time for pedestrians.
  • Greywig over 7 years ago
    On busy roads like Frome and Pulteney Street, it is unreasonable to expect cyclists to share space with motorised traffic. It is too dangerous.The cycle lanes should be separate and raised. Painted lines are inadequate.There should be proper treatment at intersections.Could we finally get rid of bicycle lanes in door zones. They are a major cause of injuries to cyclists. Ideally on-street parking on Frome and Pulteney Streets would be removed to make space for wide raised bike lanes. If cars must be allowed to park on the street, please put the bike lane on the other side of the cars.
  • Fleepo over 7 years ago
    I cycle up Frome road to work a couple of days a week (from the zoo to Carrington st), and I agree with most of the existing comments - The section between North Tce and Grenfell st (southbound) is especially hazardous due to the limited space, the car park entrance (Cars tend to cut you off turning left into the car park) and the parked cars between Rundle and Grenfell streets. Perhaps the left hand lane between North Tce and Rundle could be some kind of "shared zone" - maybe low speed bumps or corrugations, green painted, or something to slow down or discourage cars in this lane, in this section of the road? This is probably the most dangerous part of my commute.Parked cars are problematic both southbound and northbound on frome road given the lack of space and high car volumes during peak hour. getting rid of the car parking on the easter side of the road would help a lot (Rundle-Wakefield st) The northbound bike lane on Frome rd past the university is very narrow, and as others have said most days people stop to drop off/pick up students which makes things very hazardous. Perhaps Frome rd could be one lane northbound here?But in general the proposal looks like a great idea, in my opinion.
  • Lou over 7 years ago
    Fantastic Idea!I ride with my children into the edge of the city - it would be great to be able to ride with them more extensively around the city in safety.Please make the lanes for bikes ONLY. Would some sort of barrier system between bike lane and car lane work?Bike lanes tend to get lots of gravel and road rubbish in them - causing punctures and potentially falls. Can these be maintained regularly.
  • Rearrange over 7 years ago
    I live on Melbourne Street and the most obvious and direct route for me into the city is along Frome Road. So any improvements to Frome Street, which are desperately needed, are welcome.However, I wish the improvements continued north to Victoria Drive. Others have adequately stated the dangers of this strip. While it is better than it was, it is still unpleasant and unsafe. I.e. The north bound bike lane is very narrow, very rough (gutter edge and tree root protrusions), difficult to see because of tree shading, and constantly has cars stopping on it to drop off and pick up passengers. The south bound lane is a nice idea but the density of pedestrians at many times of the day make it unusable … there simply is not enough room for the number of pedestrians and cyclists using this important route (and the pedestrians seem to behave like blind sheep).I would love to see the single-lane format of Frome Road between Melbourne Street and Victoria Drive continued between Victoria Drive and North Terrace (ideally to Rundle Street at the least). Removing a car traffic lane along this short section of road would allow a bike path in both directions on the road-side of the street trees and a pedestrian space on the building side of the trees (no car parking should be allowed at any time).
  • SACyclist over 7 years ago
    My commute covers from Flinders St to Rundle Road every day, there is no easy way out of the north east side of the city. The four biggest dangers to me, which would be good if they were considerationsfor any bike lane design are: - 1) Buses - cycling alongside a bus is dangerous, buses and bikes don't mix. 2. Motorists wandering into the bike lane (easy to do) so I'm not being crtical but please can bike lanes be better marked, signed etc so motorists look before they move over / turn. 3) Motorists opening car doors from parked or unloading passengers in the bike lane. 4) Pedestrians using the bike lane as a crossing point between parked cars. Again better markings and signage might make them look before they step out. Also in an ideal world could we get a model like the UK and Copenhagen where cyclists can have a box at the front of the lights, rather than when four or five cyclists are waiting at the lights getting pinned alongside busses and cars which can lead to getting clipped because they are not aware you are there. Finally thank you Adelaide City Council for even listening to people's views.
  • Crusher over 7 years ago
    I support other congratulatory notes to ACC on their plans to improve bike line provision in the Frome St and Pulteney Street zones. I am a daily commuter along Pirie and Frome streets and the additional safety of a bike lane would be most welcome.As a recent visitor to Sydney the have a nice solution for on road bike paths that in some places provides a bi-directional bike lane, with separate signalling which is separated from the main carriage way by a "gutter" an is either raised above road height or has a barrier between the motor vehicle roadway and the bikeway. Additionally the bikeway is surfaced in green, similar to the bike lane guides on Bartels Road and around Light Square.I think both would be a welcome addition to protecting cyclists. If only one was viable I would recommend the colour surfacing as it provide a visual and textural que to drivers and pedestrians that they should be cyclist aware.
  • Russell over 7 years ago
    I commute from Magill to Forestville most days. It's fast going to work, slow going home.Recently I visited Berlin, mainly the east. I stayed in Prinzlauerberg. There were kids on the back seat of bikes everywhere. One thing that was very noticeable was that there are bike lanes on the footpaths of the major roads and off those major roads people ride safely and sensibly. Cars on the non major roads do the same. To put it bluntly, here in Adelaide, and Australia generally, the problem is attitude. Car drivers do not want to share their precious rights on the road. Therefore the only safe solution for cyclists is to separate them from mostly impatient drivers and the odd total idiot.
  • rideon over 7 years ago
    I really enjoy my ride into the city everyday - however Pulteney Street is the most difficult and dangerous part, especially from Pirie to North Terrace - so thankyou for paying attention to that part.I would like to see this bike lane - and most if possible, painted a different colour (maybe green) - for the sake of the motorists who are not aware that bike lanes exist.Particuarly motorist who may not drive in the city too often - they have little knowledge that these bike lanes exist - and the current signage is not enough to alert them. Keep up the good work.
  • Peter Lumb over 7 years ago
    Sydney City Council area has seen huge growth in cycling since the introduction of two way, colored separated bike lanes. And that is in a city where road space is scarcer than in Adelaide. The two way bike lanes were possible because car parking was removed and the education and consultation plan along all proposed routes was thorough. Lord Mayor Yarwood tells us Adelaide has more car park space than Sydney - Adelaide surely can do with less on both Pulteney or Frome or both.So in either Pulteney or Frome I'd like to see the Sydney option. Sydney has done the hard innovative work, there is Australian knowledge and experience of the issues and Adelaide cyclists can benefit from it.The Sydney Mayor, Clover Moore had to contend with the Sydney shock jock pro-car lobby, but she was skilled enough and sufficiently well entrenched enough to survive and have the bike lanes survive. It is time for Adelaide to take the next big step for cycling now that we have a Mayor who knows the issues, is popular, can speak with the media and has less fearsome media opponents. There is plenty of evidence to show that city cycling is growing very rapidly and big steps need to be taken to accommodate the growth. Forget the Sturt Street capitulation, It's time. Go Sydney!
  • austephen over 7 years ago
    I'm another cyclist who rides to or through the city daily. There are a number of simple things which can be done to make Frome Rd more bike friendly. When travelling South accross North Tce late at night, the bike button does not work and the lights are not on a regular timer either. This is a problem along the whole road at night as most lights are not on timers when it gets too late and most of them have no bike button to press. King William St has good facilities for bikes at intersections, even if cars sometimes decide the bike lane is actually a left turn lane.The bike button on the south side of the Frome, North Tce intersection needs to be replaced (it was removed a few months ago).The bike track/ lane to the North of North Tce has large pot holes and uneven lumps where trees are too close to the lane. Older people often try to tell you off for riding on the footpath, which is annoying because they are usually standing in the bike lane. There needs to be a greater delineation showing that the bike track is just for bikes as pedestrians and drivers both tend to occupy the bike lane for much longer than they should. The intersetions to the North also have poor light schedules in that a car could follow a green arrow and hit a cyclist who also has a green signal because the lights need to be re-programed. This is especially bad because visibliity is reduced by the trees and poles near intersections.The bike track bridge crossing the torrens further to the North was once well lit, the lights haven't been working on that for a while now.The parking along the South half of King William St makes it very hard for cars to see cyclists as they are reversing accross the bike lane. If we're lucky they will be parked behind a small car so we can see them coming. Those parks are terrible and new car parks should of that style should never be approved on the side of a road.
  • Kinnoda over 7 years ago
    I do not commute by bike, however any improvements to the bicycle network in the city are welcomed. We are one of the most cycle friendly cities in the world and any improvements to lanes will bolster that image.However, if the priority in the city is on cyclists and pedestrians, as has always been Council policy, safety of cyclists in those lanes needs to be ensured. I understand that business in Adelaide has always felt that lanes take away customers, however it needs to be shown that this is not the case - in most areas, it would seem, cars are parked in multi-storey garages and people walk to their destination.The free bike ride program is fantastic and should be expanded perhaps with the help of sponsors. I think that to integrate the system with public transport, there should be bikes for hire near nodes such as Adelaide Railway Station (Convention Centre is too far out the way) and the South Terrace Parklands Tram Stop. Available for hire should be between the hours of 8.00 am - 6.00 pm because often workers will work 8.30 - 5.00 pm shifts. Otherwise, bikes are only accommodating tourists or those who work irregular day time shifts.The idea of having showers for riders is visionary - I think this is a fantastic idea, and will be well documented in cycling literature in years to come. The free bike ride system is also fantastic, coming well ahead of Melbourne with their corporate half hour, paid ridership nodes.Overall, we are on the right path.
  • fairweathercyclist over 7 years ago
    I think this is great to see Council tackling some of the more challenging streets which need improvement for cyclists - its good to see the idea to catering for fast riders (Pulteney) with a direct route and people wishing to take a quieter route (Frome).I commute every day from the southern suburbs and I currently use West Terrace and Grote Street to find my way in. While Grote street has had some great improvements for cyclists, there's a few problems which need to be ironed out which should be considered in Pulteney Street which has similar issues. The cycling space seems to function as both a bike lane and an informal bus lane which creates conflicts for cyclists in peak times. The other issue is that drivers tend 'sneak out' to drive 100-200m in the bike lane to turn left. Please make sure the design takes this into account and encourages the right behaviours from road users. Also, as others have mentioned - please avoid door zones! (I like e0n's idea about the vibration strips).Finally, the most crucial things are legible connections to a wider network and intersections - please make sure that the lanes/pathways actually connect and not simply end.
  • Lucy over 7 years ago
    Bike lanes should be made a different colour to the road, especially at intersections and side streets. I've had many near misses (and two crashes) due to cars turning across bike lanes or pulling in from a side street. Coloured lanes would hopefully prompt motorists to be mindful of cyclists when crossing over a bike lane.
  • steve over 7 years ago
    Australia is one of the few nations in the world with mandatory bicycle helmet laws for adults. There is very little credible scientific evidence that helmet laws significantly reduce the incidence of serious injury or death for cyclists, however there is ample evidence to show that helmet laws discourage cycling.Cycling is a safe and healthy activity. The health and social benefits of getting more people onto bicycles far outweighs the very small risk that is involved in not wearing a helmet.Adelaide city council should use their local authority to over traffic management to allow bike riders to freely ride with no helmet if they wish to do so.Also should remove any rules preventing the riding of bicycles or skates on footpaths at moderate speeds if people wish to do that.
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    • pauligee over 7 years ago
      If the ACC wants to accomplish its task of making the city more bike friendly, decreasing congestion by making it more attractive to bikes than cars, I see this as a completely compatible and feasible idea.Check it out, this is rush hour in Copenhagen; the benchmark for bike-friendly cities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXw_t172BKY Not many helmets, and look at the weather!If ACC could start by reducing the speed limit in the city to 40 or 35 k/hr? Much safer for cyclists then; it will encourage a much greater participation rate for people living in suburbs closer to the city to ride in preference to driving.
  • janeb over 7 years ago
    I agree with both of these projects. However, would it make better sense to join up the Porter St bike path which goes through the park lands to the Charlotte St Frome Rd bike lane? I have used this track many times to avoid Pulteney St, and it is quite managable until you get close to Grenfell or Rundle St intersections, ie lower traffic volume than Pulteney St and no buses
  • Pauline over 7 years ago
    Although I think the new bike lanes are an excellent project I am a little concerned with one particular part of the route. The designated area, between Carrington Street and Regent Street South is currently only for pedestrian traffic. Additionally, a number of residences have direct entry onto the laneway. Should this area become a dedicated bike lane, provision must be made for the safety of pedestrians and residents as well as the cyclists. In its current layout the area would be quite restricted for use as a 'shared space'. The safety aspect is exacerbated by the fact that the pedestrian area starts and/or ends at the front entrance of The Box Factory on Regent Street South. This facility is used by both the U3A Adelaide and the Box Factory Community Group with numerous people accessing it throughout the day, into the evenings and at the weekends.
  • Marjatta over 7 years ago
    With the proposed Frome/RegentSouth/Castle/CharlotteSt Bicycle route what will be the new proposals for vehicular traffic and parking in Charlotte St, Charlotte Pl and Louisa St. Will Charlotte St. Become Two way thoroughfare to cater for the new bicycle lane?Will Charlotte St. be a clearway bicycle thoroughfare in East -West direction as per demand in the morning and evening? How will this effect the parking on the Eastern side of Charlotte St,will it still have permit parking?The route along the Western edge of the East parkland would in my opinion be a better plan to develop as a bicycle path as there are less cross streets and the flow of bicycles could be controlled with the traffic lights on Wakefield St, Bartles Rd, Rundle Rd and Botanic Rd as against 11 cross streets from South Tce to North Tce in the proposed plan.Bicyclists do at the present use Charlotte St as a two way thoroughfare ignoring the safety of the other users of the Street. Also Charlotte St is used as a short cut in the morning peak hour to dodge traffic lights, LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY signs and policing would make the street a lot safer.Have a look at other cities else where in the world as to the planning of bicycle paths, I can only speak of the intelligent planning in Helsinki where bicycle paths are separate from roads and are planned with the developement of new suburbs, not as an afterthought in this country.
  • Tommo_87 over 7 years ago
    Great to see ACC is commited to improving bicycle facilities.I use Pulteney St daily and find it reasonably safe.Though the combined bike/bus lane doesn't always work.I suggest having the bus lane against the footpath, then a metre wide bike lane covered with green, non-slip paint, then the two lanes of traffic.One issue is with the motorists wanting to turn left off of Pulteney, changing lanes too early or very suddenly, often oblivious to cyclists.At intersections if the front of the bike lane was a metre in front of the car lanes we would be far more visible.
  • Bel over 7 years ago
    As a resident on Charlotte Street I am concerned about the proposed changes. Charlotte Street is narrow and has restricted parking as it is, and access will be even further limited for residents. This plan may be great for a cyclist from Unley, but a round about route for the city ratepayer to get home. Perhaps money would be better spent sealing the myriad of bridle paths through the parklands and onto Pulteney Street where, I do agree, there is a dangerous bottleneck in the mornings for cyclists. But as for these quiet connecting streets, they are safe for cyclists already, taking away parking to draw a line on the road seems a pointless waste of public money.
  • Phil over 7 years ago
    I am a daily bike commuter. My morning journey takes me down Carrington Street from the east parklands before turning into right Regent Street North (Frome Street). On my evening journey I use Pulteney Street and then turn left into Carrington Street which I then follow all the way to the east parklands. I find the T-junction intersection at Carrington and Regent Street North to be quite hazardous. Vehicles negotiating a right-hand turn at the end of Regent Street North often fail to give way adequately. I feel this hazard could be greatly reduced by placing a roundabout at this intersection. A roundabout would improve safety as vehicles would only have to worry about giving way to traffic approaching from a single direction rather than from both directions. In addition, a roundabout at this location would not only calm the traffic flow but it would likely reduce congestion at the intersection as traffic would not have to bank up as much while waiting for Carrington Street traffic to clear in both directions when turning right at the end of Regent Street North.
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    • bilby over 7 years ago
      As a pedestrian my walk to and from work takes me along Regent Street and Frome Street. The narrow pedestrian/bike path past the Box Factory, and the Carrington Street intersection, can be very hazardous. Even a zebra crossing across Carrington Street at that point would be very useful. I understand cyclists' disdain at inconsiderate drivers, but as a pedestrian cyclists can be just as dangerous (and yes, they too break the road rules) - especially when riding much too fast for narrow shared zones like the path past the Box Factory. Any bike path development needs to also take into account the safety of pedestrians.
  • bicycle dave over 7 years ago
    The plan itself looks good. I often have to travel along either Frome Rd or Pultney St and the current lack of bike lanes in the first couple of blocks from North Terrace have means it is quite hazardous. To be effective though, there needs to be greater enforcement of bicycle lanes along with publicity that it is happening. Many drivers create hazards and impediments to cyclists in bicycle lanes - either because they are ignorant of the rules for using bike lanes have become accustomed to a lack of action by authorities when they do break the law in relation to bicycle lanes. Only when it starts registering with the majority of drivers that if they illegally enter a bicycle lane, they risk getting fined and losing demerit points will they start changing their behavior.Also more locations for free city bikes would be great. A visible presence on North Terrace around the University precinct would be great.
  • tuesdayu over 7 years ago
    I would use Frome Rd from Nth Tce to Carrington St as a route to work if there was a bike lane. At the moment I would rather take my chance with the buses on King William St.My issue is with car users who do not acknowledge the bike lane. It needs to be sufficiently wide and a different colour to the road with good signage. Remove any short-term parking outside of CBC on Frome Rd.
  • kyto over 7 years ago
    Thanks for trying to improve cycling in the city! I commute daily from the South down the entire stretch of Frome road. It is a dodgy and narrow ride approaching North Terrace. However, I still prefer this to King william road -where on the south end despite a fairly wide bike path we are constantly being threatened with cars backing out directly onto the bike path. My ideal path would be a completely seperate path (not between car parking or in a bus zone) going north south through the city either on Pultney (were currently we risk getting squashed by a bus) or down Frome. There are hundreds of cyclists making the right choice for the environment and our health- we deserve at least one safe route into the city.
  • interested over 7 years ago
    While I believe that the design and provisions of bikeways are vitally important for the continued sustainable use and growth of our city, some more thought will be needed for the more southern areas of the proposed plan for cyclists so they can safely travel to and from the city centre. 1. Regent Street South is narrow with two narrow footpaths interrupted by a large number of street signs, a fire hydrant, trees and light poles. Pedestrians usually walk along the road due to footpath congestion, overhanging branches, rubbish bins awaiting collection and very uneven surfaces. There is parking on both sides of the street with a single lane being left for vehicle traffic, pedestrians and cyclists. This range of users causes near misses on a daily basis.2. There are two often-used (vehicle) lane ways entering Regent Street South as well as several driveways and garage exits opening directly onto the footpath/road as well as the exit from McLaren Street. Cyclists need to take evasive action to avoid collisions.3. The street is used heavily by vehicles as the exit from the one-way McLaren Street, as a drop off and turn around point for deliveries and patrons to the Box factory and U3A as well as providing some parking for residents. Halifax Street businesses often have delivery trucks using their back entrances or laneways off McLaren Street or Regent Street South, adding to the traffic on this narrow street.4. A large coaster bus and trailer and other trucks often park at the northern end of Regent Street South outside the Box Factory entrance and at the pathway into the 'park 'between Carrington St and Regent St South. Turning is often difficult, made worse by vehicles dropping off or picking up (often frail/elderly) patrons at the Box Factory (daytime, nights & weekends), so three or four point turns are required. Often these manouvres have been started with no thought to other pedestrians or cyclists attempting to enter the 'park' or Regent Street South or vehicles exiting McLaren Street. Visibility is often very poor with this congestion.5. The street is already used by large numbers of cyclists, many of whom cut the corners entering or exiting Regent Street from Halifax. We witness several near misses each day as vehicles enter/exit Regent Street South into the path of these cyclists.6. Visibility at the Halifax St / Regent Street South intersection is limited as there is a large electricity transformer adjacent to the intersection and vehicles move into the existing bike lane on Halifax Street to be able to see when it is safe to continue onto Halifax Street. In addition, this transformer box prevents line of sight access to cyclists who exit Castle Street heading north into Halifax Street and then Regent Street South. Two large transformers at the Carrington Street /Regent Street North intersection present similar visibility issues for cyclists and pedestrians.7. Pedestrian traffic is frequent and often consists of small groups. The Regent Street South route is a direct one for access to Frome Road. Box Factory patrons also move between the cafe on Halifax/Castle Street corner and their vehicles at various times during the day. At times their passage is haphazard due to slow walking, frailty and poor hearing. They often do not hear/realise that cyclists are approaching- evasive action is required.8. the 'park' between Regent Street North and South has a winding narrow path through it. Trees overhang. Gravel adjoins the brick pathway for much of its length. This gravel is difficult for bikes to move across and we have witnessed several incidents where riders have come to grief when trying to move around pedestrians and move off the brick path. The Box Factory entrance as well as entrance to the flats adjacent to the park make cycling difficult and potentially dangerous through this section. As a pedestrian, I have been nearly knocked down several times by cyclists who give no warning of their rapid approach in this section. The shady nature of this section also makes visibility difficult at some times of the day and footing is poor due to tree roots lifting the bricks.9. The path through the 'Park' is often covered with water (from poorly designed and installed irrigation and rain) meaning foot and cycle travellers are splashed by others who pass in this area.10. The exit from the 'park' into Regent Street South has a bollard immediately in front of the ramp from the street, making negotiating the entrance difficult, particularly when there is a vehicle parked in the loading zone.The idea is a great one, but the route needs some thought with the narrow nature and practical aspects needing attention. Ideally, cars and bikes should be separated for the safety of cyclists. Maastricht, in the Netherlands has a wonderful system that we should look at.
  • andrews over 7 years ago
    I agree with the recommendation of others to join the bike path from Charlotte St to Porter St Unley via the bridle track near Marshmallow Park - it is so heavily used that it may as well be formalised into a sealed bike track - the current ruts are never going away unless it becomes a sealed path !I live near the park between Charlotte and Castle streets and don't have any problem with it becoming a more "formal" bike path - but do sympathise with the residents that live on the street, it is hard to see how this can be done safely without removing on-street parking. If the council can pull it off with a minimum of facilities loss it would be welcome though. At the moment there a many cyclists (including myself sometimes) that go the wrong way up or down Castle/Charlotte and seem to do so in relative safety - it would be good if we could somehow formalise the arrangement.
  • Zone over 7 years ago
    I am a resident of Charlotte St and I do believe that better conditions for cyclists are required. However, it is quite concerning that the documentation provided by the council for comment on by interested parties:1. Is misleading and incorrect - from the map it appears that there are no residences or individuals affected by the changes to Charlotte St, as there is a hospital located on one side of the street. This is entirely incorrect, one side of this street is housing - the residents on this side of the street rely on on-street parking as there is no off-street parking available. Please note that St Andrews Hospital is located to the right of Hutt St. I note that this error does not appear to have been picked up by AECOM or the Adelaide City Council prior to distribution of the map or associated documentation.2. Does not include street names for the relevant streets which would have enabled individuals reviewing the map to easily identify this error.3. Does not identify one way streets - both Charlotte and Castle Sts are narrow, one-way streets with permit parking for their residents. Both streets have little vehicle traffic.4. Does not identify areas which are currently restricted to bike/pedestrian access, nor provide a guide to what is meant by the markings indicated on the map at Castle/Gilles St and Carrington/Regent Street South. 5. The scale of the map is also of a concern. It shows Castle and Charlotte Street as being the same width as Frome and Pultney Street. This is not the case and I also note that other smaller roads have been marked on the map correctly.I contacted AECOM two weeks ago to make a booking for an onsite consultation. Whilst they took my details and advised that someone would get back to me to make a booking, two weeks later the period of consultation has closed and I am yet to have a return phone call, or a consultation with AECOM staff.I am troubled that at this early stage in this process so much has gone pear shaped.
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    • Engage over 7 years ago
      Thanks for your response. We appreciate your interest in the project and will ensure a meeting is arranged as a matter of priority. We are committed to ensuring that all of the businesses and residents on or close to the proposed bike corridor have the opportunity to be heard. This will ensure that our designers can consider all the issues raised and deliver a cohesive design that balances the needs of all users. It should be noted that the attached map was provided to give an indication of the route the bike lanes will take. We deliberately did not provide the names of all the streets as the map would look to cluttered. We acknowledge the error with the hospital location in the early version of the maps and have rectified the in later version.Everyone will have a further opportunity to make comments on the designs during stage two of the consultation phase later this year.
  • pascalo over 7 years ago
    I live on Frome Street and I think it should really have a bike lane all the way through past the Zoo. The more space for cycling the better.I also think that the red lights as they are at the moment cycling up / down frome street are really frustrating. One has to stop at every light basically, there's no "green wave".On a related note: Would it make sense to make the pedestrian lights switch without pressing the button. I think this would increase awareness and care when drivers are making a turn.
  • East Ender over 7 years ago
    Great initiative. I regularly commute via bike from the Burnside area, and am a little surprised that you are using Frome St, rather than East Tce. East Tce is an ideal bike road as it is wide, has no real vehicle traffic (between South Tce and Wakefield St), has an existing bike lane access from Greenhill Road through the parklands (Beaumont rd), is already heavily used by cyclists. For instance, to get from the Eastern or South Eastern fringe of the parklands to the Adelaide Uni, I believe there should be bike lanes starting at South and East Tce corner, up to Wakefield St, pedestrian lights to cross Wakefield St (also of value to CBC school), continue on East Tce to Bartells Rd, use existing Pirie St pedestrian lights, up East Tce to North Tce, to the Uni. Apart from the safety aspect, they are all very pretty areas that show off our beautiful city. Also this frees up Frome St which is already narrow and heavily used by vehicles
  • pascalo over 7 years ago
    Reviewing this I'd like to propose to also include an improvement on how a cyclist is supposed to cross from Glen Osmond Rd to Hutt Street.The multi-lane layout of Glen Osmond makes it really hard to make a right turn, and I think this is the most dangerous spot I encounter in my cycling.After crossing Greenhill Rd the layout changes to double lane and a parking strip, into which the cyclist is squeezed by the passing cars. Then the road widens into a 3 lane layout, left lane is straight onwards, middle is optional turning lane, right lane is turning lane.In order to take the left turn I have to cross at least the left lane well in advance, otherwise the passing cars will force me going straight. If I then remain on the right side of the middle lane I am in great danger of being overlooked by a fast car going straight. So I find myself veering over three lanes to the very right edge to make the turn, just to then struggle to cross over into the cycle lane after I have made the turn, with faster cars passing me on the inside.Not a good experience.I it would help if cyclists would be guided off the busy, fast road onto the cycle lanes in a manner that doesn't force conflict with faster cars, for example a different signal, a clear separate lane or something like that.
  • andrewc over 7 years ago
    Overall, I applaid the council for taking on a commitment like this. Having commuted in and around the CBD for the last 13 years I can only welcome more bike lanes.My general recommendations to the council;- be bold - don't things in halfs like the bike lane on frome rd heading south toward north terrace - this is a bad design and only shifted cyclists from the road but has caused many problems with pedestrians- be bold (2) - built a bike lane that will be there in 50 years time. The "Copenhagen" style bike lane in Sturt St was not Copenhagen at all. It seemed a semi-solution that tried to satisfy all parties but resulted in frustration for all.- be bold (3) - introduce a minimum clearance between a car door opening and the end of a handlebar - if a bike lane can't provide then either remove the car park or don't build the bike lane in the first instance - as it is safer to take up the whole lane of traffic rather than trying to "straddle" between parked cars and overtaking cars.- be bold (4) - observe bike lanes in melbourne and sydney and assess what does/doesn't work- be bold (5) - encourage intelligent design on roads that prevents drivers driving in bike lanes - perhaps "nudging" by installing concrete edging forces drivers to hold a correct driving line rather than lazy straddling.- be bold (6) - just be bold and build something that makes a statement!
  • ferraritifosi27 over 7 years ago
    It looks like a great plan, I believe that more can be done in our city due to the wideness of our roads. I also would like to see bike lanes newly made by widening the roads on Wakefield Road/Street, East Terrace, Flinders Street, Hutt Street and Rundle Road. Those bike lanes could also be newly made and help to make great run off areas for Motor Racing in the future for events such as the Clipsal 500 and possibly even Formula 1 if our Government can step on this chance as Bernie Ecclestone said he is going to subsidise the cost of the Australian Grand Prix if it becomes a night race. They could make great run off areas and improve driver safety for our Temporary Street Circuit and could help us to get back the Category 1 circuit license. The wider you have the roads the bigger the bike lanes could be and could help cyclists safety too.